The subtitle of the talk is "Freeing Yourself from Beliefs That No Longer Serve You."

Amazing.

Philip Wilson, welcome to Poetry in Eden. Super happy and excited to have you on. I'll make a quick introduction.

And I'm really curious about how the conversation will flow. Because you have a really diverse and impressive and inspiring background. So just so I get everything correctly, I just have the note here.

Philip Wilson is an entrepreneur, a mathematician, holistic health specialist, and author of the upcoming book, Pictures of the Mind. It's a non-exhaustive list of everything that your history has entailed. But I would love for you to introduce yourself to the Poetry in Eden audience.

Okay. I was minding my own business. I was a child prodigy in math.

Not exactly, but like a quasi. I was known as Mr. Mathematics of my high school. I finished like second, third, and fourth in the state of Indiana on national and statewide math exams.

I was published as a senior in high school in national magazines for solving problems. I think three or four of the problems I solved, and they were published. And so I have an honors degree in mathematics from Indiana University.

And then after that, I received a four-year fellowship to practice, to study mathematics at Ohio State University. They expected me to be the next brilliant Mr. Wilson to come out of there because my older brother had gotten his Ph.D. in mathematics at Ohio State as an undergrad, three years of graduate. And at age 27, he was a full professor of mathematics.

And they excitedly gave me a fellowship, thinking I was going to follow in his footsteps. But they weren't anticipating, nor was I, that I was going to have a trauma with a girlfriend who found another boyfriend. I subsequently had an out-of-body experience that I didn't even know that I had.

Wow. And I couldn't do math anymore. I lost total interest because my specialty was problem solving.

My favorite book in high school was How to Solve It by George Pólya. And I used my problem-solving abilities to learn how to travel inwardly and to become aware of blocks that were halting my spiritual freedom. At one time, during graduate school, I said I wasted 10 years of my life doing mathematics.

And then I was led to reading what Plato said, or Socrates said, in the writings of Plato. And he said, there's a purification of soul that happens when you do mathematics. And I realized that it wasn't for naught.

Nothing is for naught. Everything is ordained by the divine. You know, we're called creatures.

And do you know why we're called creatures? Tell me. Because we create. It is our destiny to create.

Now, when children go out to play, they daydream and create their future. So when you have recess in school, they call it recreation. And what that's really saying is re-create-tion.

So we are creators. And once we realize that we are the creator of our universe, and the mess that we got ourselves in, or the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful that we created for ourselves, we created. So if we created a mess, then the beauty of that is that we're free to uncreate it and re-create something else.

So you can no longer be a victim. And that's freedom. Yeah.

So you're talking a bit about quantum stuff. Is it a manifestation? Yeah, it's experiential. See, in other words, I was fortunate and blessed to have the out-of-body experience where I was connected to the inner sound and inner light, but I didn't know that at the time.

They say it's the water from once you drink, you never thirst again. Well, that happened to me, and I didn't even know what the hell was going on. I was just driven.

Are you familiar with the book Celestine Prophecy? Which book? Celestine Prophecy. Celestine Prophecy. No, I'm not, actually.

It was written by James Redfield, I think around 1989, 1990. And it was fictional, but it was about synchronicity. So all these magical things were happening in my life after my out-of-body experience.

And in the experience, I didn't realize that they actually took me out of my body and showed me women doing dance, women doing music, and women doing art. And they said, Phil, you need to get involved into music, art, and dance because you are a thinker and you need to become a feeler. You're out of balance.

You've got too much left brain, not enough right brain. And that's what they essentially told me. And so I was led to reading the book by a German author, of all things, by Hermann Hesse, one of my most favorite authors.

I love Hermann Hesse. He's one of my favorites, too. He's one of my favorite authors.

And I read one of his books, like Clockworks, every two years for 14 years. And I didn't even know it. Siddhartha, Steppenwolf, and my favorite was Narcissus.

Steppenwolf. Yes. Ooh.

And all those are like some of the best. I mean, I was so blessed because they are full of such great spiritual wisdom. It's unbelievable.

Oh, it's unbelievable. The book that I read first was Narcissus and Goldmund. Yes.

This one is your favorite one, you said. Well, you know, you can't, you can't, yeah, it's my favorite. But, you know, Steppenwolf and Siddhartha are classics.

I mean, you can't. They're classics, yeah. And Magister Ludi (The Glass Bead Game) was also exquisite.

And I read Journey to the East. Oh, I haven't read that one. Which one? The Glass Bead Game.

Yeah, that was his latest one, I think. And that was his classic. But the Siddhartha and the Steppenwolf are the most well-known.

And they're beautiful. Oh, amazing. They are beautiful.

Yeah. They are beautiful. There's so many things you've mentioned here.

When you mentioned synchronicities earlier, I always think of Carl Jung and all of his work. I'm sort of related to Carl Jung in the fact that his midheaven is the same degree that my midheaven is, about 28 degrees Scorpio. Oh, my goodness.

Oh, you really believe in astrology. I love that. Well, astrology is my mathematics right now.

Oh, cool. Yeah. Great.

Because it's my fun. Timeless. Timeless.

Yes. It's so ancient. This, for me, I really applaud that because some people hear astrology and they don't understand.

It's not just fluff. No. It's the exact time in the picture of the stars.

When each person is born, it makes all of us so very unique. So I really, it's absolutely incredible. And I keep saying to people, it's actually very mathematic.

It's actually very scientific. Yes. So it's really beautiful that you say that.

Well, Kepler was an astrologer. He's the one that figured out the ellipse, and he was a mathematician and an astrologer, or not a mathematician, whatever he was, but Kepler was an astrologer, almost number one. See, once you understand that you have a midheaven and you have an ascendant and you have a moon and you have a Venus and you have, it's not just the sun.

And actually, I think the most important part of your astrology, short is the ascendant, because that sets the stage for all the experiences you're going to have and how you're going to have them. I'm very Virgo, just being transparent. I have like five planets in Virgo, but my ascendant is in Aquarius, which is interesting since we're in the age.

I'm an Aquarius ascendant, and my moon is in the first house, conjunct my ascendant. Wow. So it's like I always wondered why I was so... See, I have attracted very interesting, weird people, even in high school.

I was an intellectual, and yet I would attract people who were not at all. And in later life, I attract all these weird people to me, but I don't know they're weird because I'm an Aquarius moon, so I just think they're normal. And then people say, Phil, you hang out with weird people.

And the reason they like me is because I accept them, because I honor them. And that's always been the way, but I've always loved the eccentric, always loved the extraordinary. Yeah.

Yeah, I can resonate with that. And at some point in my life, I even stopped using the word weird. I don't know.

Yeah. I even consider anyone, yeah, you know, but society does, and yeah, that really resonates. A beautiful word is to honor.

You honor people no matter how crazy, no matter how out of balance you are. It's like in the Bible, it says, honor thy mother and father, but no, you honor everyone. You honor everyone.

And once you honor them, now you can communicate because you're not judging them. And the worst thing that we can do is to judge others or judge ourselves because judging not lest ye be judged. And actually, I found an antidote to judging that you will love.

Okay. Tell me. It's to observe.

And observe comes in the word serve. Observe comes in the word serve, and you cannot judge and observe at the same time. It's impossible.

It's a light switch. You're either observing or you're judging. Oh, I really like that you bring that up because it's also very scientific, and it's also a little bit mathematic, I feel like, because it's collecting information also.

Yes. It allows for collecting information instead of forming. Collecting data.

Science is all based on the collection of data and then noticing the patterns and having through observation. It's the root of science is collecting data and observing and noticing patterns. In astrology, you notice patterns.

That's what mathematics is all about. It's the noticing of patterns and then proving whatever your theorem or realization is. So if I told you some things about my chart, would you be able to, like, off the cuff, have some perspective or... A little bit.

Not really. A little bit. A little bit? Yeah.

A little bit. Okay. All right.

Maybe we're saving it for later. Okay. But maybe you can tell me more about this holistic health side of things because I'm a little bit of... I'm not a health nut.

I'm more of a recovering health nut. Yeah. I have some flash... Go ahead.

One of my favorite sayings. It's a Paul Twitchell quote. Paul Twitchell is one of my heroes.

It's, Being for or against anything exiles you from the God-consciousness state. Oh, neutrality or what is that? Yes, exactly. It's poetry when you say, Being for or against anything exiles you from the God-conscious state.

It's really being attached to being for or against, which causes imbalance. Oh, I need to write that down because I really like it, actually. Being for or against anything detaches, exiles from God-consciousness.

It's kind of... There's like... I'm forgetting the official term for it. If you're for or against anything, you exile yourself. You get locked into duality.

Yeah. You know, there's... I'm forgetting the official name for it, but there's a... It's on the tip of my tongue, but it's not there yet. But basically, I would describe it as there's this part of, for lack of a better word, spirituality that defines the laws of our universe.

And one of them is there are only half-truths. It reminds me of this. Yes.

Like there are only half-truths. It's giving me a similar essence. And before I kind of was reading this, it was so shocking.

There are only half-truths. But then when I finally accepted it and understood it, my whole life got simpler. I don't need to... I don't need to go up against anyone.

I don't need to prove anyone wrong. This whole black and white stuff and thinking is really, really, really, I think, what gets us all in trouble. And then it turns into hate.

And I don't know. It's like... Anything you say, okay, if you're a Christian and you're explaining your... And I'm saying, right. I agree with you because everything you say is true.

And if you get into the moment and you get into the heart of God and you're aligned, you see that they're speaking their truth and you agree. And sometimes you can even add to it. But again, that's honoring people and honoring their beliefs.

See, you know, how do you spell belief? I mean, that's a signature. It's B-E-L-I-E. Every belief is a lie or what you call a half-truth.

Oh, interesting. Oh, that's also very interesting. And maybe that's also why they have this... There's that trending term now, limiting beliefs, limiting beliefs.

Everyone is trying to overcome their own limit of belief. Yes. And because these beliefs are what we formed from our infancy, from our childhood, and maybe are one of the biggest things that are a part of the programming that we oftentimes have to unprogram, reprogram.

You are a slave to your beliefs. Now... Totally. Do you believe in Santa Claus? That's a nice question.

Actually, one of my favorite movies, Every Christmas, is How the Grinch Stole Christmas because I really think that Jim Carrey did... The latest one, the original one with Dr. Seuss and the drawings, his poetry actually inspired me a lot as a child. But this film, I think Jim Carrey did a really incredible job. And I think he's an incredible actor.

But I digress. Do I believe in Santa Claus? I wanted to. I don't even know if I really did that much as a child.

But I know it's not a real question. We'll see. The subtitle of my book, the title is Pictures of the Mind, and the subtitle of my book, which I selected six, seven years ago, actually it was eight years ago, and I hear it all the time now, but it's Freeing Yourself from Beliefs That No Longer Serve You.

And here's a great example of a belief that no longer serves you, besides the Santa Claus belief. The belief would be a ladder, a three-story ladder that gets you to the roof of a three-story building. And what's there? A helicopter.

And where's the helicopter going to take you? To your dream destination. And you're telling the helicopter pilot, great, this is so exciting, I'm right excited about going with you, let me get my ladder. And the pilot looks at you and says, you know, it ain't gonna fit.

And you have to decide whether to not go or to free yourself from your ladder. So you tell the ladder, you know, you were great, I love you, I've always loved you, you were great, but I must go on. See what I'm saying? Yeah, oh my goodness, I have chills.

Yeah, it served you for a long time, but now the rules have changed. And so now for you to go on, to become more free, you have to let go of the belief. The belief got you to where you are now, it's no longer needed, and actually it's gonna interfere.

Yes. Yes, you know, I would love, actually, I would love to talk about this in detail, because I'm realizing, from the middle of last year till now, I've been getting this impulse that a big part of, I don't even know how I would describe it, but just to make it simple, a big part of life is mastering the art of letting go. And I don't know, I still don't know how to put it into words, but this metaphor, analogy that you just shared is exactly right, because I feel like there's always a moment or an inciting moment that will show us when we must make that choice.

I think it is a choice. And it's so much been on my subconscious that sometimes I just, I'm a very, like we mentioned, I love being healthy. I thank God for health.

And so I'm also walking often, and sometimes I just go on a walk and see where my heart leads me. And I stumbled into a shop that I must have passed hundreds of times, never had gone inside. Very lovely.

Everything's white and lots of silk and lace in the window and stones. And I end up, I had just written a poem about letting go, and I start walking towards a stone and this woman comes up to me, the shop owner, and she says to me, yes, soltar, soltar. And my Spanish is a little bit out the window.

I said, yes. So I sent it to my friend. She's Argentinian.

This woman also happens to be Argentinian. And she says, and I said, what's the exact translation for this? I could have asked, you know, Google or ChatGPT, but I wanted the native speaker to tell me. And she said, let go, let go.

And I thought, there it is again. So I would love from your perspective, like to kind of put it into concrete terms, because it's like, sometimes letting go feels like instability, but I have a feeling that letting go leads to all the stability that we could ever want and dream of. So, I don't know.

Letting go is like, you know, a secret. If you're in the present moment, then it's easy. And the key is how to get into the present moment.

Now, when I was meditating about 25 years ago, they told me, okay, I heard a voice saying, momentum. And not only did I hear a voice, it was pictorially expressed to me. And that was, they were telling me that's the name of my new company.

But a lot more, okay. And I'm saying, okay, that's a pretty mundane word. I'm an Aquarius moon, Aquarius rising.

I want something exotic. And that didn't seem very exotic. And then they said, taking advantage of the moment.

And I said, wow, I never realized that momentum came from the word moment. That's cool. And so I've accepted the fact that that's my new company name, Momentum.

I created a health food store called Momentum 98 Natural Health Foods, because I couldn't get Momentum.com. So I'm visualizing my stationery, and I'm saying something's missing. Way back, there was an old Wendy's commercial where an old lady, she was about 81 years old, goes up and said, well, where's the beef? You know, from another company. And so I'm saying, okay, there's something missing.

And then they said, propelling yourself into greatness. And I said, wow. And then all of a sudden, the third eye closed, and I was in blackness again, instead of looking at all these pictures.

And I copied that down. It took me 10 days to find out where I copied it. And I couldn't, for the life of me, remember.

But when you, see, taking advantage of the moment is the secret. And that means living in the moment and listening. And that means your antennae are up.

It's like you're vigilant. You're in the jungle, and you have to make sure that a tiger doesn't eat you, okay? So you're listening. You know, we have two ears, one mouth.

And taking advantage of the moment means you're living in the moment and listening. So if you're listening, and then there's a wave that comes by because you're listening, you step in front of that wave, and the wave will propel you into greatness. Wow, you just touched on so many different things.

Wow, that's brilliant. Okay, I mean, okay. I didn't think that up.

It was given to me, you know? Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. It's experience.

You, a few times now, have used the term, they. And I'd love to understand for you what, who they mean to you. I mean, I'm assuming it's universe.

Yeah. The most high. Yeah, exactly.

All that and yes. In other words, when I had the out-of-body experience initially, they were two or three individuals there showing me, you know, pointing out that I needed to get involved in the music, art, and dance. And a couple of years later, I was meditating, and I had just accepted a job and, you know, to sell stuff.

And I was meditating, and I wake up from the meditation. I'm coming down a fire engine pole into my body. And I'm saying, I'm yelling back to them, is this taking the job? Is this really necessary for my spiritual growth? You know, and there are two or three being there.

There's always been two or three. You know, sometimes there's one, but it's like your spiritual. You're a guardian angel.

Well, you're spiritual teachers. You know, I prefer to call them spiritual masters, spiritual teachers, rather than guardian angels. But you can call them a guardian angel.

It doesn't matter what you call them. It's the inner guidance that you get, that God gives you, you know, and puts it in a form where you're comfortable. See, it has to be in a form where you're comfortable, and that's how it works.

Hmm. Interesting. There is no time and space.

There is no time and space. This... Interesting. Why do you say that? I believe that, but I don't know why.

Why do you say that now all of a sudden? There's only the present moment. There's only the present moment, and in the present moment, the future and the past are accessible to you. Wherever you put your attention, you're there.

You've gone on four-hour car rides that lasted ten minutes because you've been talking. There is... See, there's only duration. Paul Twitchell wrote a book called The Talons of Time.

And in the... You know, if you can imagine the claws of talons of time, and the evil ones in the book are called the time makers. So... Right, right. So I have a definition of pain, and the definition of pain is the awareness of time.

Have you ever worried? Have you ever hurried? Have you ever waited? All very painful experiences, all involving time. Wow. So there's only the present moment.

Oh my goodness. Wait, I love that. I really love that.

It reminds me of the quote by Dr. Seuss from... What is it? All the places you will go. And he's talking about the waiting place. He says, waiting for a train to go or a bus to come or a plane to go or the mail to come or the rain to go or the phone to ring or the snow to snow or waiting around for yes or no or waiting for their hair to grow.

Everyone is just waiting. Waiting for the fish to bite or waiting for wind to fly a kite or waiting around for Friday night or waiting perhaps for their Uncle Jake or a pot to boil or a better break or a string of pearls or a pair of pants or a wig with curls or another chance. Everyone is just waiting.

And I remember feeling so much fear and dread at that part of the book as a child because it's exactly what you just described. I don't wait no more. I don't wait.

I never wait. Well, I can't say I never wait, but every time I catch myself waiting, I get back into the present moment and make sure I'm enjoying myself. Instead of complaining about what wasn't, I'm enjoying what is.

Now, there's a dark lining and a judgment that distinguishes itself from an observation. It took me a month to figure out what it was because I had a friend who couldn't understand the difference between an observation and a judgment. I said, how can you not understand that? But the dark lining is that in every judgment, there's a complaint.

And if you look at the sunset, look at the sunset and say, oh my God, that is so fucking beautiful, right? You don't say, you know, God, I think the purple should go where the orange is. Yeah. That would be a judgment instead of an observation.

Yeah. Yeah, it's true. So many judges, actually.

So, you know what the greatest fear in the world is? Say it again. What's the greatest fear that most people have? Oh, I don't know. You know, it's not the fear of death.

You know, people are more afraid of speaking in public than they are of dying. Now, because of my mathematics background, the fear of speaking in public is actually a corollary of a greater fear, and that's the fear of being judged. Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

That makes sense. But the only judge is actually you. You project them judging you.

Yep, exactly. And then that produces shame and guilt. And all that bullshit, yeah, that we do to ourselves.

I call them shenanigans of the mind. Yeah, it's true. It's interesting also because you mentioned one of the chakras, the third eye chakra.

Yeah. I thought that was interesting. And then if people are afraid of public speaking, then maybe also a lot of people aren't speaking their truth, so they also have a closed throat chakra.

Yes, right. Which makes me wonder who's speaking their truth. So if you get in the present and you have absolute reliance on your inner guidance or God or your heart, and that's almost like a secret, absolute reliance on your inner guidance, and then there's nothing to fear.

Definitely. That resonates with me. But, yeah, I wonder for a lot of the world what, you know, every experience is so different.

I don't know, that's really interesting. It's really thought-provoking. So to me, fun is having these realizations.

You know, while I'm meditating, while I'm in the shower, while I'm walking down the street or whatever, a lot of times I'll get a blue flash of light. And I interpret that as if the presence of God is there just letting me know I'm doing okay. I get a flash of blue light or a blue star or just, you know, and I can be meditating and get that or I can be in the shower or just talking to someone.

And that happens to me at least 100 times a year. Wow. That's the inner guidance.

I need to figure out what mine are. I don't even know. Usually it's a blue light for most people.

There are various spiritual teachings that talk about it. They call it the blue pearl, the blue star, the blue light. Even the Star of David is a blue and white light.

But it's core about the presence of the Master, the presence of the inner guidance, whether it be Christianity or any religion. It's the connection you have with the inner sound and the inner light, which goes beyond time and space. Because you are an atom in the body of God.

You are a piece of shattered mirror. You're a drop in the ocean. That's a nice metaphor, a piece of shattered mirror.

Yeah, because we all are mirrors in the end. There's no time and space. I've mocked you up and you're a mirror to me.

And so when anything in your life happens that may be disconcerting, you say, okay, what am I learning from this situation? You embrace it. And see, whenever we don't embrace something, we have a scale of 1 to 100 of a level of trauma because you haven't accepted the present moment because of, quote, fear. Yeah, that's real.

See, a massage therapist will say, do you have an issue in your tissue? So every time that you don't accept something and embrace it, it gets locked into your body as an issue and is a form of pain. And it's emotional. The body keeps the score, that book, The Body Keeps the Score.

That's right, the body doesn't lie. It's fascinating, it's wonderful, it's lovely, it's beautiful. The way God communicates to us to get us to become aware of the freedom that we are.

Okay, well, I have one last deep, deep, deep question then. Okay, good. What do you think all of our purpose here on Earth is? I know everyone has their own purpose, but if you were to, from your point of view, summarize what you think we're all here for, then what would you say? To awaken to your true nature.

God is not mocked. All this world is a mock-up that we have created. I like to say that the cast party is a hell of a lot more fun than the drama of this world.

Say it again, the who party? The cast party is a hell of a lot more fun than the drama, than the play. When you go to perform in a play, they have a cast party and they celebrate, and they joke about all the parts you played. Shakespeare, all the world's a stage, and all the men and women are merely players.

They go on stage, they do their part. Yeah, that's all life is. As a matter of fact, all life is, frankly, is a daydream.

One daydream after the next, and each daydream culminates in an ecstatic moment. And then you fall asleep, and then when you wake up you start daydreaming all over again, where it culminates in an ecstatic moment. And then you eventually fall asleep, and then you wake up and start daydreaming.

That's all life is. That's all life is. And when I realized that, I laughed and laughed and laughed, and about ten years later I said, Fuck, that's true.

Excuse the language. No, you're right. Maybe my brain still hasn't managed to comprehend this one, but the first time I read something like that was in The Four Agreements.

It's this ancient wisdom, and they start the whole book with this exact thing that you say. And I still haven't managed to wrap my mind around it, but I can feel that it's true. The more you get into the present moment, the more you listen to your heart.

It's like when I was first awakening in 1970, I used to ask myself, because I didn't know, I said, What do I really, really, really, really want to do? And it took about four or five reallys for me to connect with what I really, really, really, really wanted to do. It's like when you go to a restaurant, What do I really, really, really feel like eating right now? It's the same thing. It's just dig and delve, 11, 12, dig and delve.

That's a secret. You dig and delve, and you focus, and you listen. And then you uncover your heart's desire.

And it never ends. It never ends, yeah. No, see, there is no beginning, and there is no ending.

So you can't achieve your dream because it always gets bigger and bigger. It's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You get into the moment, and that's where eternity lies. It doesn't go on and on and on and on and on. That's infinity.

Eternity is when you get into the moment, you get in the moment, you get in the moment. Everything is accessible to you in the moment. Wow.

Wow, that's so brilliant and inspiring, and it's also really rare, it's very rare that I can speak so openly and connect with someone I've only just met about so many things that I feel are true, but so many people are not talking about it. So what, I mean, talk about synchronicity. Yeah, yeah.

That's really incredible. Yeah. This conversation we've had.

Wow. See, the name of my book is called Pictures of the Mind, Freeing Yourself from Beliefs That No Longer Serve You, and it should be coming out this year. And I've been blessed, you know, more than thrice, you know, in the movie A Beautiful Mind, the guy, he was a mathematician, he wanted at least one original thought, and then he would say, all I want in life to feel like I've succeeded is one original thought.

It's like you've got to prick and open up the universe to you. And so I've been blessed to have more than one original thought. It's when you connect directly with spirit, it's all accessible to you.

Totally, totally. Yeah, I really, and it's crazy because on both sides of my family, it's indigenous, so I don't know. We never really spoke.

We just lived this stuff. We just lived this stuff. You bet.

My mom passed away when I was 19, and that was the, you said trauma on a scale from 1 to 100, that was my 100 trauma. How can I accept losing my best friend suddenly, unexpectedly? You can communicate with her in the dream state. There is no time and space.

She's right here, right now, and all I've got to do is talk to her and expect her to respond. Yeah, totally. There are so many different, and I've healed, and I really believe in therapy, and I've done so much work.

You talk about stepping into the wave and letting it propel. It sounds like at some point, this is what propelled my life to where I am today was that original deep loss, and I feel really grateful that they, them, use your phrase as well, because I was talking to a friend, it was just maybe two weeks ago, somebody was really surprised. They were like, is your joy, someone said to me, a German person actually, your joy feels disingenuous.

How can it be? You just had an easy life? I've never had anyone try to tell me my joy was disingenuous, because I've seen so much loss, I've seen so many different things, and darkness. If you can have great sorrow, then you can have great joy. Exactly.

You asked me what our purpose is. Again, your purpose is to embrace the moment so you can awaken to your true nature. It's awakening to your true nature as soul, a point, an atom in the body of God, a point outside of time and space.

All you are is a point, a unit of awareness, and that's your true nature. Once you awaken, then God or Spirit finds a way for you to be in this world, and you don't even have to say anything. You having that awareness makes you shine.

We all vibrate, and it makes the intensity of our shine so much greater that people notice it. Like when you listen to your heart or inner guidance, or call it God, that's called God-listening, right? And then you can abbreviate it. It's called G-listening, and then take the hyphen out, and it's called glistening.

So when you're listening to God, you're glistening. And that shine, people can pick up unconsciously, and they are drawn to that because we all want to be in the light. We all want to be enlightened.

We all want to, like a hen with its chickens, its little chicks, we all want to be in that presence. And so that's why we're drawn to certain individuals, certain people. It's because they resonate with us on all different levels.

Yeah, totally. It's interesting that you say, I do think a lot of people want to be in the light, but a lot of times people still choose the darkness. Sometimes the glistening is too much, and this is something... They're not ready.

They're not ready to let go of their habits to keep them stuck. They're not ready. And in time, they will be ready.

So I never push. If I'm starting to talk to you, and I'm starting to say something, and you throw up a wall, I stop on a dime. Because I'm not talking to hear myself talk.

I'm talking because I'm listening. And so what's coming through me is what the other person needs to hear. And when they block it, I stop.

And when they don't block it, I let the water flow. Yeah, I believe that. And something that I've noticed about me about a year and a half ago, and it was a little humbling, is that I have a program inside me that everything I do is colored with kindness.

I'm not nice. Nice is a social equity. But even if I'm angry, even if I'm, you know... For me, it needs to be colored with kindness.

I think we have some similarities. Yeah. I think we're somehow similar.

People mistake that kindness a lot for weakness. I don't know. It's your strength.

But I'm not nice. If I'm nice, it's my problem. Yeah, totally.

I know exactly what you mean. Wow. Wow! Well, what a beautiful note to wrap up on, actually.

Hopefully, more people... I have one thing I just thought of. Okay? Do you know that you can never have what you want? And do you know why? I have heard that. No, tell me.

It's in conversations with God. They don't explain why. He just says, you can never have what you want.

See? But the name of my book is called, Pictures of the Mind. When you're wanting something, you're picturing yourself not having. So the antidote to that is to be grateful for having what you, quote, want.

So if you're grateful for having what you don't have, you're picturing yourself, you're picturing the dog, the puppy in your arms licking you. You're not picturing the dog in a cage in the pet store. See? I love puppies.

I love dogs. I love animals. Forget what you picture and give passion to.

So the antidote is to be grateful for having what you don't already have. And therefore, you're picturing yourself having it. And then you eventually step into that picture.

Oh. Hmm. This is getting spooky, because this is not the first time in the past month that I'm hearing this exact phrase.

You can't have what you want. So that's a little bit spooky. One of the psalms, I was brought up Jewish, and one of the psalms, and I was never religious, and it started echoing about a year and a half ago, it says, I shall not want.

Ah, true! Oh my goodness, it's true. And I never gave it another thought. Here's something else you'll enjoy.

Reincarnation is a very clumsy way of saying that everything is happening at the same time. In other words, there's no time. Everything, everywhere, all at once.

That's right. That's the name of a movie that I saw. Yeah.

Yeah, the movie, it's a side note, but it's the title that I think really resonates. That's right, yeah. Yeah, it really, really, really resonates.

I'm curious about what one of your favorite poems is. We always end the conversation with a favorite poem. My favorite, well, first of all, as a kid, I liked Lewis Carroll.

He was a mathematician, and as a kid, my favorite poem was the Jabberwocky. But we're not going to talk about that. I'm, my favorite poet, by far, by far, and he's actually the most read poet in the United States, it's Rumi.

I love Rumi, of course. Yeah, I mean, I call it ecstatic poetry. I get so high just reading his poetry.

And, you know, one of his poems is, there's a field beyond time and space, or I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there. But my favorite poem, and I'm going to, I have to read it.

I died as a mineral. I died as mineral and became a plant. I died as plant and rose to animal.

I died as animal and I was human. Why should I fear? When was I less, ever less by dying? Yet once more I shall die as a human to soar with angels blessed above. And when I sacrifice my angel soul, I shall become what no mind ever conceived.

As a human, I will die once more. Reborn, I will with the angels soar. And when I let my angel body go, I shall be more than mortal mind can know.

That's not the version that I'm familiar with, but I just looked it up on the internet. It's, you know, let me soar until I become like angels blessed. It's like, so when have I ever been less by dying? You always, to be born again, you have to die.

And then you become something greater. When you graduate from high school, you're the top of the world, and all of a sudden, you're a freshman in college starting all over. It's, you're always, you always get birthed.

When you come down into this world, you die from where you were, and then you're born into this world. When you die in this world, you go into another world, and you're birthed. You're always greater when you let go.

That's what dying means. Yeah. Totally.

Oh, my goodness. How wonderful. Wow.

Thank you so much, Philip. It's been such a pleasure having this discussion. I feel grateful, and I feel inspired by having you here on Poetry in the Eden.

Yeah. Ah, Doggie's here to say goodbye, too. He was just running by.

Okay. Yeah. And, perfect.

I'll stop, stop recording now. The, the, great. Nice.

So, we had, we had fun, didn't we? We had fun, didn't we? Yeah, it was beautiful. I feel, I really do feel grateful. I mean, the universe, the universe, you know.

You found, you found me, how? Just from searching, or? Well. I'm always surprised to have, to have people find me, because it's always. I got on some kind of.

It's always so aligned. Yeah. I got on some podcast service.

And, and so. Wow. My secretary contacted you.

Who's that? Who's that there? Oh, is that a dog? There's a fluffy. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's a dog.

I, I can't, you can see him, okay. I can't see him. But here, I'll pick him up.

Come on, Dookie. Okay, he's running off. That's my, he's my 14 pound chihuahua, I thought.

Come here, Dookie. Hi. This is.

Hey, sweetie. His mother. Hey, Dookie.

Hey, Dookie. Can you see that's Felicia? Hi. Hello.

That way. How are you? You having a good day? This is a 14 pound chihuahua mix. His sister is four and a half pounds.

He's 14 pounds. His other sister, he's got two sisters, four and a half pounds each. And he's 14 pounds.

And he's 5% German Shepherd. Wow. He's the best mutt in the world.

He's such a sweetie. 28% chihuahua. Oh, sweetie.

Wow. This is the whole thing. There we go.

Hi. Hey, baby. Hello.

Amazing. I'll let you go. Hi, Dookie.

Awesome. Well, then I guess I'll just thank you again. It's late here, so I should be.

Oh, that's right. Getting off to bed. But I'll be emailing all the links when it goes live.

My website is picturesofthemind.com. Okay, perfect. And my other website is philipawilson.com. There's two L's in Philip, and there's an A, and then a Wilson. And my business is relaxsaunas.com. That's a sauna I sell.

There's an exclusive distributor in Germany. They sell it. We can't sell to Germany, but I sell it all over the United States and to almost every country in the world we can ship to, but not Germany.

Okay. Nice. Yeah, I would love to try one of the saunas.

Honestly, everyone's talking about red light therapy, so I would actually love it. I see there's one even maybe behind you. This is actually far infrared light.

It's not red. It's far infrared. See, it's the same.

See, you're a far infrared light being, and water is a far infrared molecule, so the granddaddy of all the invisible lights would be the far infrared light. There's near infrared, there's mid-infrared, and there's red light. Red light is visible, and everyone's talking about red light, but it's the far infrared light that vibrates the water molecules and detoxifies you and cleanses and purifies you.

Oh, wonderful. Yeah. Oh, I really would like to have one of those.

Okay, great. I'm going to be checking it out. Good.

Well, it's been more than fun. I think you got more than you bargained for, didn't you? The universe always provides. That's right.

Yeah, it was exactly the reminder I needed. Well, thanks for being a wonderful mirror. Me too.

We're just mirrors. That's all, you know, just a mirror. It's true.

Well, then, see you soon. So how young are you? Me? Yeah. Yeah, you want me to tell my age? I guess you can.

It's not required. I was born in 1992. Okay, very good.

Okay, that's good. So you're 33, pretty much? Yeah. Yeah, I'm a double digit too.

Yeah. Yeah. Nice.

So I'm 77. Really? Yeah. Oh, my goodness.

I mean, this is what a brilliant life you've had. I mean, I could understand. I wouldn't have never guessed.

No, no. Wow. It's my secret.

Wow. I got into fasting in 1971. I had a Kundalini awakening in August of 71, and that propelled me into a whole new different space compared to when I had the out-of-body.

And then from there on, I've had so many incredible experiences. Is it intermittent fasting you're doing, or you don't eat for like 24 hours? Well, both. I mean, I was doing intermittent fasting for about three years, and before I ever heard the word, it was three years later that I even heard the word.

About eight, nine years ago, I was doing it. I just wasn't eating until about, you know, I'd spend, you know, I would just not eat in the morning, and I'd have celery juice, spinach at around three in the afternoon, and then around six or seven o'clock, I'd maybe have some raw chocolate or something. Then I'd eat.

And then I wouldn't want to eat in the morning the next day. Well, that's pretty good. Yeah, that sounds like that's really pretty good.

So anyway, I opened up a health food store. I started selling herbal products. That's how I made my living.

In 1976, I started full-time after I didn't get my master's degree in mathematics. I didn't have a job, so I was selling herbal vitamins part-time, so I started selling them full-time. And then eventually, I started selling herbal combinations and massage tools and superfoods and green foods and Chinese mushrooms and Chinese herbal products and whatever you can think of, cutting-edge products I was selling.

And then 23 years ago, I started selling the far infrared portable saunas. So that's how I made my living. But it's like Newton.

He was a postmaster, but that's how he got paid. That was his vocation, but his avocation was being a physicist. Oh, I didn't even know that.

So my job, my vocation is being a distributor of herbal and health products and far infrared saunas and massage tools and whatever. But my avocation is a vehicle for spiritual principles, to espouse those and educate people and share what I've discovered, my realizations with others. Oh, I love that.

That resonates as well, this difference between vocation and avocation. Is there anything else you want to share? Anything spirits has on your heart before I'm going off to sleep now? No. Know that you are a soul.

You are soul. You've always existed. You can't not exist.

Imagine yourself not existing. It's impossible. And you will always exist, and you can't not exist.

And just enjoy life. Enjoy. That's so important, to enjoy every moment.

And to trust, trust in your inner guidance. When all hell breaks loose, just know that there's no time and space. And know that you are, and that the world is just giving you the experiences you need, and it will pass.

All things pass. It's just an experience. It's just an experience.

Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here.

And I enjoyed it as thoroughly as you did as well. So thank you. Awesome.

Thank you. See you. Bye now, Felicia.

Bye. Yeah.